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Tuesday, January 24, 2006

Stale Listings Increasingly Cancelled/Relisted?

An anonymous reader sent me the following email:

I have to stay anonymous with this. I just got an e-mail from an appraiser that sends in good information to me from time to time. It appears that agents are doing this old trick to manipulate exposure for their listings that are languishing. This means that listing numbers are not accurate. Ouch.

On the NWMLS this is a main page message to Realtors (here is the pasted response):
Attention:

Once again, NWMLS is seeing an increase in the practice of cancelling and relisting property. In most circumstances, the practice is a violation of NWMLS Rules. Rule violations of this nature are easy to identify, and NWMLS will initiate disciplinary proceedings against agents and brokers who cancel and relist properties, except in accordance with the following guidelines:
  • Agents do not have the ability to cancel and relist property without the aid of their broker or the broker’s designated staff.
  • You may never cancel and relist a property without a new listing agreement and new listing input sheets fully signed and initialed by the parties.
  • You may not cancel and relist a property, even with a new listing agreement and new listing input sheets, unless there is a material change to the listing (e.g., a significant change in the price of the property, a remodel, a change in zoning, or a change in ownership).
  • You may not cancel and relist a property in order to make it appear as a new listing when it is not or to make changes to the property information contained in the listing. For example, it is a rule violation to input a new listing with an insignificant price change, even if the seller executes a new listing agreement.
  • In almost all cases, changes to a listing should be made on either Form 18, Amendment to Exclusive Sale and Listing Agreement (price changes, extension of listing) or Form 19, Status Change Input Sheet (changes in status, changes to property information contained in the listing, changes to marketing remarks, etc.).
If it is true that there has been "an increase in the practice of cancelling and relisting property," might that be an early sign of a turning in the NW market? What are your thoughts? Has anyone else seen this posting or any evidence of an increase in this practice?

27 comments:

Joe said...

I think I know what's going on here...I have a couple of properties listed with a Realtor in Florida. Realtors email new MLS listings daily to potential buyers. Within a couple of days they're buried and forgotten. I know,I get them mailed to me too. I asked my realtor to "tweak" the listing info every so often to keep it visable.(MY Realtor told me that's against the rules - The goody two shoes!)

Dukes said...

Here is the latest exchange between me and a local realtor about marking up prices:

Me:
Hello, I am inquiring about this listing above in my email. I am curious, I see that this house sold in 2001 for $152,500 and now you are asking $289,000? Am I missing something here? Why is this house worth $136,500 more dollars than it was just a few years ago?

Doesn't this seller realize that real estate is slowing down all over the country and it is not a sellers market anymore? This is a ridiculous asking price for such a small house, it is greed pure and simple. I would like to hear your response to my concern, I see that more and more homes are reducing asking prices, I am quite sure that to move this house they will also have to reduce. I am going to buy a house in the Seattle area, but I refuse to line the pockets of the seller, hopefully in the future you and I can work together.

Realtor reply: (sharikruse@pnwrealty.com)
Hello,
The asking price for this home is a fair market price based upon other recent sales in the area. If it is over priced it will not sell. If it is fairly priced someone will purchase it. Prices in our area have risen substantially in
the past 5 years and they are still rising. The softening in prices
which may or
may not affect other parts of the US has not happened in the Puget
Sound region.
I suggest you review the front page of the Seattle Times real estate section from last Sunday, 1/22/06. It details the market very well. I would also refer you to the Puget Sound Business Journal. They have recently published several articles about the increases in prices of residential, commercial and rental rates in Seattle. Thank you for your interest. Shari Kruse Quoting

Me (again):
You are mistaken about prices in this area, there is now softness being seen. Do you think we are somehow immune to a real estate decline as the rest of the country is seeing?

Here are a couple of links for your 'research'. They will give you a good idea of the climate that is headed this way. You really should know this type of stuff as you are a professional.

http://thehousingbubble2.blogspot.com/

http://seattlebubble.blogspot.com/

Read the first story from the Seattle Bubble site, it will give you a good indication of realtor "tricks." Here is a blurb:

I just got an e-mail from an appraiser that sends in good information to me from time to time. It appears that agents are doing this old trick to manipulate exposure for their listings that are languishing. This means that listing numbers are not accurate. Ouch.

Anonymous said...

dukes, with that logic, most businesses, from oil companies to clothing retailers are greedy too. Their mark-ups are ridiculous! If I am selling a hot product, I'd be damned if I don't try to push the price as high as I can until the market tells me it is not worth the price. What is the fixation of buying a home when renting is better at this point in time anyway?

Dukes said...

to anonymous:

I am just doing my part to try to hammer it into the heads of the real estate agents that the PARTY IS FREAKIN OVER!

I understand your point, call it a sick compulsion on my part but from what I see way too many real estate employees still have their collective heads up their asses.

We need some realtors who are grounded in reality, once they start advising clients to lower prices, comps will come down, which will lead to further price drops.

Yes, my effort may prove to be fruitless, but it gives me some fun, and it provides me with insight into the mindset that exists at this moment in time within our local real estate industry.

S Crow said...

Duke -

Relax, go for a jog around Green Lake or on the Burke Gillman......just teasing.

In other news:

- Colorado Legislature to regulate business relationships with brokers, title companies, lenders etc...
- Affiliated business relationships: Help or Hindrance?

Visit Snohomish County Real Estate at www.snohomishhomes.blogspot.com

S Crow said...

oops.

Go to:

www.snohomishcountyhomes.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Posting private e-mails and listing realtor's address is a really low class act. Tim, the blogger, shame on you for letting this ride.

Anonymous said...

Yes, my effort may prove to be fruitless, but it gives me some fun, and it provides me with insight into the mindset that exists at this moment in time within our local real estate industry.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

An alternative is being reported to police for harrasment. Which is what it is.

Out at the peak said...

Yes, not only the cancel/relist trick is being widespread abuse, they are also relisting closings! So they will show old closings instead of new ones because they don't have any. What happens is in some cases, they actually count a home sold twice. So it artificially inflates sales volume!

There are even trolls going into some forums and saying how busy the market is...

Dukes said...

anonymous said:
An alternative is being reported to police for harrasment. Which is what it is.
----------------------------------

Are you for real? I am harrassing this real estate agent? She is the one who had the audacity to paint a rosy real estate picture when in fact everything is NOT rosy. Check the #'s out of NAR today.

Only in Seattle would I get this type of reaction. As for it being a "low class" act, can you tell me why this is? Why shouldn't we know who is writing such drivel. Are you a realtor spreading the same bullshit?

If you want to criticize me, log in and do it. I will continue to report what I find out in our local market. This includes the outrageous crap that is regurgitated to me by so called "professionals"...prosecute me!

Dukes said...

P.S. Here are the #'s from NWMLS' 24Hour Market Watch - Check the # of reductions:

24-hour Market Watch

New Listings 492
Solds 260
Pendings 391
Expireds 41
Price Increases 59
Price Reductions 188

Not looking great if you ask me, lots of new listings as well. But, i wonder how many of these are "recycled" new listings?

The Tim said...

Posting private e-mails and listing realtor's address is a really low class act. Tim, the blogger, shame on you for letting this ride.

Could you please explain exactly what is low class about Dukes' posting of real estate agents' email addresses and his cordial conversations with said agents? I fail to see what is wrong with either of these things. The email addresses are public information, posted on real estate websites for all the world. I also would argue that emails sent by a real estate agent involving their business are not the same thing as "private e-mails."

An alternative is being reported to police for harrasment [sic]. Which is what it is.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

ha·rass (hə-răs', hăr'əs)
tr.v., -rassed, -rass·ing, -rass·es.

1. To irritate or torment persistently.
2. To wear out; exhaust.
3. To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids.

biliruben said...

I don't think dukes is harassing the poor lady. I just think he's misinformed. Since 2001 the median house price in King County has gone from 250K to near 400K. This is quite similar to the % increase that dukes quotes. With a bit of work done on the house, this is perfectly reasonable, and in line with what I would expect in this market, which still has remarkably tight inventory.

This isn't to say that there aren't greedy flippers out there. I've pointed to several in these comments that had that sort of increase over a period of months, not years. If you want get your jollies trying to annoy realtors, dukes, spend some time on redfin finding the proper targets.

biliruben said...

Here's a freshy for you, dukes: 1360 sq ft of pure greed.

Slap down a roof, some gravel and a coat of paint, and you deserve that 144K in a little over a year, right?

http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=139008

Dukes said...

bill ruben said:
I don't think dukes is harassing the poor lady. I just think he's misinformed. Since 2001 the median house price in King County has gone from 250K to near 400K. This is quite similar to the % increase that dukes quotes. With a bit of work done on the house, this is perfectly reasonable, and in line with what I would expect in this market, which still has remarkably tight inventory.

Hello Bill, it is not that I am misinformed, it is that I just think that going from 250K - 400K in 4 years is OUTRAGEOUS! It is emblematic of all that has gone wrong in housing since Sir Printsalot (Greenspan) took rates down to 1% and left them there, fostering this entire mess.

I don't know about you but 150K increases in price is NOT normal. This is why prices will come back down to earth.

Anonymous said...

Dukes-

I see your shenanigans are causing quite a ruckus in "don't mention it and it'll go away" Seattle.

Personally, I love reading your correspondence with local realtors and hope to heaven you keep it up and keep sharing with the rest of us.

Right now, my favorite sleazy Seattle realtor is the local NAR mouthpiece, Lawrence Yun.

You can catch him regularly on CNBC on the 5 min. Comcast local interviews- waxing poetic about how undervalued Seattle property is and how we've got "a long way to go" to catch up with the prices of California real estate(!).

He also wrote an article about hip, cool and underpriced Seattle for the January '05 NAR report.

Yes, I think we can all agree that there are many Seattle Realtors who are working overtime to try to keep this monster going.

And a lot of them, I think, are reading this blog.

Question:

Is there a Seattle realtor out there who will share with us EXACTLY what is going on?

Anonymous said...

Whoops- meant the January '06 NAR report, not the "05.

biliruben said...

Dukes -

Outrageous? Perhaps.

Shari's fault? I don't think so.

My guess, without more info on the particular house, is that all she is doing is pricing a house at the comps; at a price that she thinks will get the house sold for her client. That's a realtor's job and she would be out of one if she did anything less than price the house at a level that she deemed is reasonable for our current market.

Now looking Greenspan's way may be a more appropriate place to to direct your outrage, if you simply want to vent. That and our lax regulation of lending standards supported by conservative politicians who think "regulation" is a dirty word, and therefore leave loop-holes intact and underfund enforcement of those few regulations we do have.

I suggest you read some of the shenanigans going on behind the scenes to get people into loans, over at anotherf*ckedborrower.com.

Dukes said...

Bill, I am a regular over at another FB. I also agree with your points - it is not this woman's fault. But, this is just one of many emails I have received from incredulous realtors up here. The funny thing is that you know that what they tell me is their "token" response that everyone gets.

Little do they know that I probably read 10X the information on THEIR industry than they do and I am much more informed than they are. So, when they spout nonsense to me, it aggravates me. The turnip truck didn't just drive by and I didn't just fall off of it, so I get tired of hearing their line of shit.

Thanks anon, I like posting the nonsense that realtors write me, I myself find it interesting.

Anonymous said...

This includes the outrageous crap that is regurgitated to me by so called "professionals"...prosecute me!

Wed Jan 25, 08:20:29 AM PST

Life did that already.

Anonymous said...

ha·rass (hə-răs', hăr'əs)
tr.v., -rassed, -rass·ing, -rass·es.

1. To irritate or torment persistently.
2. To wear out; exhaust.
3. To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids.

Number 1 it is. He is doing it "for fun". I did not really expect different reaction from you. In fact you probably approve it with all your heart.

inseattle said...

My,my...!

The hostility here in Seattle from the "there's no bubble" crowd is embarassing.

Relax folks, if there really is no bubble, your property value will increase year after year without your even having to think about it.

Don't even think about it, everything is fine. Everything is fine.

Stay away from the bubble sites and everything will be fine.

Your financial future is secure.

Everything will be fine.

Just stay away from the bubble sites and everything will be fine. Everything will be fine everything will be fine evrything....

The Tim said...

anonymous,

If you think that one or two amicable emails makes up a campaign of "persistent torment" then I am forced to assume that you lack the capacity to argue a point in a calm, rational manner.

No offense, but seriously—come on. Go back and re-read Dukes' emails. They're far from harassing.

Dukes said...

Thanks Tim, I think this particular 'anon' is a sandwich or two, or maybe three short of the proverbial picnic.

Controversy is good on a blog, but I wonder why he/she refuses to register and log on?

Anyhow, good discussion...

Anonymous said...

inseattle said...
My,my...!

The hostility here in Seattle from the "there's no bubble" crowd is embarassing.

Relax folks, if there really is no bubble, your property value will increase year after year without your even having to think about it.
+
The market in Seattle is slowing down. There are properties with reduced prices, houses on the market longer and some builders offer incentives (over $900,000 in particular). This nonwithstanding, harrassing agents with obnoxious e-mails "for fun" and posting their e-mail addresses on the blog is deplorable. Don't like it, don't buy, or make a low offer.

If you think this is perfectly OK, try this number at a car lot and let me know how it comes out for you.

Dukes said...

another anonymous said:
"This nonwithstanding, harrassing agents with obnoxious e-mails "for fun" and posting their e-mail addresses on the blog is deplorable."

All I can say to this is go cry somewhere else. What is wrong with you, grow some balls. There was nothing harrassing about my emails...I am sorry I must not be as "sensitive" as you. You crack me up.

Anonymous said...

The duplex that I moved out of in July has been relisted 3 times. The second time it was listed @ $25K less than the original asking price. The seller has not lower the offering price this time around.