Advertising the Bubble
As I was catching up on the comments, I was rather intrigued by the direction that you all took Monday's open thread. Here's a recap for those of you that do not closely follow the comments. When it comes to the blatant cheerleading nature of the real estate section of the newspapers, they probably feel that they have no choice, since a very large percentage of the papers' advertising budgets come from real estate interests. However, that gave Mikhail an idea...
It's not as if the bubble bloggers are going to pick up the slack with full page ads sticking their thumbs at the real-estate industry, and encouraging to general public to stop buying.The conversation just took off from there:
...
Hey, the quickest way for the bubble bloggers (like us) to influence the editorial policy of our local papers is to start taking out negative advertisements about our housing markets.
As soon as anti-bubble content becomes the biggest financial contributor to the paper, we will see a complete about face in article bias.
Maybe Tim should start holding out a tin cup for donations to place anti-bubble ads in the Times?
Nolaguy: If we paid for it, I wonder if the Times or PI would run a full page add that was "anti real estate"?However, not everyone has warm fuzzies about throwing around that kind of money. Plymster suggested some other possible activities:
Mikhail: ...for a 6 inch by 6 inch ad we would need to raise $17,438.4... Seriously, if we really could pull something like that off (i.e. getting enough people to donate to a Puget Sound housing boycott advertisement) that would likely generate a lot of publicity, beyond publishing the ad itself. And if the papers really were silly enough to decline the ad, we would have an early Christmas, and be able to take our story to the national media and get a LOT of coverage.
synthetik: $17K is a lot of scratch. I think it might be possible if a website was created around this endeavor and then posted on all the national blogs (HB, HP, etc). Might be fun to try... If they wouldn't run the ad we could donate the funds to charity.
$17K? You guys are saving waaaayyyy too much money renting.A few people suggested some cheaper methods of advertising:
I disagree with handing $17K to one of the key creators of the bubble. Why not just hand WaMu a giant novelty check for $1 trillion dollars to cover next year's ARM resets?
If you really want to raise awareness, build up a fund that donates money to debt education, and then send a press release to the appropriate news rags. Then you'd be doing some good and not contributing to the problem.
Or you could buy me a ladder so I can get off my high horse. ;-)
msrelo: Maybe I don't have a full understanding of how the ad sales work but it seems like a single page insert is cost effective.Wanderer takes it a step further and starts proposing fundraising methods and ad print subjects:
Wanderer: Alternative to the PI: I just called Seattle Weekly and got the following quotes: 1/2 page = $1471, 1/4 page = $732, 1/8 page = $389. Those rates are for a single week and there is ~10% drop for 4 weeks consecutive.
Wanderer: I personally would put in $200 toward a 1/4 page add the first week to get some attention and then follow it up with a 1/2 page add the next. I am relatively new to the scene, but I would trust synthetik and Tim to put together a well thought out and RATIONAL explanation of:There are of course still questions of whether this would even be a valuable exercise:real estate fundamentals where the current market stands relative to them current trends locally what the REI wants you to believe Many, many, people will dismiss it as paranoid anyway, so it really needs to be conservative and not over the top.
synthetik: If you were firmly plugged into the matrix like most people, wouldn't you simply dismiss the ad? Wouldn't people wonder what we all had to gain?Which brings me back to ad print and to Eleua's comment:
Wanderer: It would be hard to convey motives in a 1/2 page article, so it probably isn't worth trying anyway. Anyone that is going to ask, "What do you have to gain from this?" probably can't answer the same question about the writers of the RE section. For me, there is value in just putting out good information where very little currently exists.
If all of you are serious about this...I think before anyone gets too serious bandying about large sums of money, we would need to come up with a simple way of getting people's attention. Printing a half-page essay about "fundamentals," "unprecedented run-ups," and "ARM resets" would be a waste of money. Very few people would read it, and of those that did, you would probably convince about 0.1%. I think Dilbert creator Scott Adams neatly sums up what is necessary in a situation like this:
It would probably be best to collect all the turbo-Bull quotes from late '05 early '06, and string them all together. Show just what REIC shills all these bulls have been.
Then you ask if you would spend $500K on the wisdom of those Carnacks. If not, why not?
Perhaps you can also include quotes from all the Wall Streeters back in the late 90s. Let the inquisitive reader draw his own conclusions.
The challenge was that the bad ideas sounded terrific to the uninformed person. You couldn't kill these particular bad ideas with logic because the arguments against them would be too complicated. You had to go in through the back door.I think that Shiller's home price graph is a good example of the kind of thing that Scott is talking about. So that's the challenge. Come up with a simple phrase, image, or series of phrases that make buying a home at the peak of the bubble "seem frankly stupid." If we can do that, then I think we can consider buying some ad-space.
I suggested a few cleverly designed, hypnosis-inspired phrases that were the linguistic equivalent of Kung Fu. They were simple (that's my specialty), and once you heard these phrases, they made any competing ideas seem frankly stupid.
19 comments:
Why do we need validation by having the Bubble idea carried by the MSM? I never understood why the Mozilla team spent money for that NYTimes ad.
1. Save your money
2. Research bank stocks
3. Buy long puts as needed
4. *POP*
5. Profit! yay!
Who cares about newspapers? I only read a newspaper when I'm at the barber.
I am all for working out some good content for an advertisement. Something that shows the absolute explosion in the use of exotic mortgages, and no-doc loans, would be interesting, as well as showing the rent/ownership ratios for our region.
To me, these are the most compelling arguments for the real-estate bubble. If we aren't in a bubble then ownership/rent ratios wouldn't be out of whack, and people would be able to afford homes without exotic loans.
However, putting the precise content of an advertisement aside for a second (although this is an important subject), I would like to point out that the mere act of actually placing such an ad could get a lot of publicity (if we do a good enough PR job).
Having the bubble-sitters actually get together to accomplish some real-world task would cause a lot of media to take notice. It would show the depth of concern that is out there. I think this is precisely the type of story (i.e. a bunch of bloggers who pulled off a massive grass-roots ad campaign) that would resonate in a lot of media places.
Does it show that I have done a lot of work with PR in a past life? :)
christiangustafson said, "Why do we need validation by having the Bubble idea carried by the MSM?"
We certainly don't need to post an advertisement for "validation". However, coordinating our activities together to do something in the "real" world can cause a lot of people to realize that it's not just cranks out there who believe in the "bubble".
Let's put it another way: do you think that Tim's or Ben's blogs are having any impact on the broader housing meltdown? Absolutely! There are people who discover these blogs every day who had no idea how messed up the real-estate market really is. The more people who get this message, the sooner the markets will correct.
OK, Mikhail, I just don't see an ad doing it.
Better: grass-roots effort, make a few simple placards "BEWARE THE HOUSING BUBBLE", "ASK ME ABOUT THE HOUSING BUBBLE", "THE HOUSING BUBBLE IS REAL", etc.
Print up a stack of tri-fold fliers, making the full detailed case for the Bubble, then finishing with hyperlinks to all the key bubble blogs. Kinkos! Cheap.
Put on a crisp suit, and spend a few Saturdays handing these out at the Market and at Westlake Mall. Reach people before they sign up for that neg-am IO suicide loan.
I have one more point to make. Why do we want to do this?
Is it to be right? Do you want to save a few people? Do you want to hasten the deflation of the Bubble and a return to normalcy? (so we can buy houses)
What's done is done. The best analogy I've read is an old one from Housing Panic comparing the Bubble to an atomic bomb test. We've seen the flash, but haven't felt the shock waves -- yet. They are coming! No escape is possible now.
I think as far as public advocacy goes, the most important thing we can do right now is to raise awareness against
1. Federal bail-outs of the indebted
2. Subsidies and other market distortions that put off the day of reckoning
3. Inflate the USD$
Basically, 3 ways of saying the same thing. We must take our medicine and ride this thing down.
"What's my motivation?"
I'm sorry but I don't see the benefit of running in advertisement in the cheerleader media, particularly at that cost. I think we're doing a much better service with blogs like this and Ben's blog. We just need to get the word out so people can find these places for themselves, and I don't see a newspaper ad in the RE section doing that.
Some people have suggested that a print advertisement won't make that much of an impact. Well, what other vehicles could we use?
Buses? Billboards on freeways? Sky-signs at ball games?
I like the idea of coming up with some sort of project that bubble blog lingerers can participate in. Something that would give tangible evidence to the groundswell of concerned citizens on this issue.
A march on WaMu headquarters maybe? :)
Or maybe we have rotating protests, targeting the worst bubble-blowers, with a few dozen people getting together with banners and signs outside a mortgage broker, or realtor, office each week-end?
I love redmondjp's idea. We could have people submit possible targets (of egregiously priced homes, with scheduled open houses), and we can set a time for people to show up. Instead of looking like rag-tag protesters, we should dress up nicely and be non-confrontational.
We could have signs that give the relevant stats for the property: how much they are asking over what they paid, how big the mortgage is, how long it's been listed (and re-listed) how many other homes the owner has, etc. Maybe we could even dig up info on the realtor.
We could show how many other homes in the area are for sale, and what the price trends are for them.
Our message could be, "it's ok to be a bubble victim if you want to, just make sure you're informed". Maybe we could just position ourselves as providing consumer eductation.
whatever we decide to use for the add, we shouldn't definately have:
WWW.SEATTLEBUBBLE.BLOGSPOT.COM
Along the bottom of the ad
Informational picketing...
Very ballsy.
If this was tried on a Sunday afternoon, I can see the headline on the Seattle Times:
"Realtor Guns Down Six Protestors at Open House in Ballard"
Now, THAT would be a way to get the MSM's attention. Do we draw straws for who gets picketing duty?
sorry, my post above should say
SHOULD DEF HAVE, not shouldn't. I need a vacation.
how about getting some shirts printed up... sell them for 10 bucks each (at cost)...
have your blog address in the front...
and in the back something that has to do with the RE bubble...
then have a meet and go around open houses looking at houses while wearing the shirt...
I can see how people will actually get shot...
What is to be done? There is no need to carry the message any further to the public, or to make any public theater out of it.
USA Today, the Today Show, Oprah, and the nightly news will have a constant trickle of stories about FBs and mass foreclosures. The real-life data will be too widespread and horrible to ignore. There is no need for any of us to witness to the public on this.
That's why I mentioned that what matters at this point is that nothing stupid is done by the political and regulatory class to try to fix this mess. Especially the inflation option. As a naive holder of USD$, why should I lose out to this speculative madness? I haven't an ounce of sympathy for the FBs. None.
I do like to think that when this is all over, maybe Austrian-school economics will be vindicated (again). During the coming economic nuclear winter, read some Human Action or anything by Hayek to pass the time. These were great men, giants of the 20th century.
The Tim,
Based on previous conversations, I've always been under the impression that you take pride in having a certain level of objectivity, (and recent analysis demonstrates your ability to be as objective as data allows) but wouldn't that change if you became an advertiser for the bubble?
I probably would not have even brought up this question but I feel compelled to comment any time synthetik takes my writings out of context as he did earlier in this thread! ;)
Let me see if I understand Dustin correctly. to paraphrase: "If you advertise a point of view, even if you stand to gain nothing more from that advertisement than peace of mind, you are inherently biased and cannot claim to examine things objectively." Yet if you get your paycheck from an industry (as Dustin does), it is unlikely that you are biased.
That logic does not follow.
There seem to be some altruistic arguments here for the ad idea:
* prevent people from getting burned and going bankrupt
* help mitigate the economic fallout from this catastrophe
* increase mainstream critical thought
I applaud those of you who would do something to relieve the world of its ignorence and better your fellow man.
My darker side says, "Screw the sheeple. They have access to all the info we do. If they aren't smart enough to spend a few hours researching and analysing a half-million dollar purchase, they deserve to go bankrupt."
But that's not the point. Neither is it the point to perform the most noble, unflawed form of charity. Doing something positive is better than thinking about it and doing nothing. If you guys move forward with this, count me in.
plymster,
Your paraphrasing did not capture my point at all, so of course you do not follow your own non-logical phrase.
I think we should let The Tim answer since he obviously has a better sense of logic than you.
You're throwing out a lot of facts and trends there, darren. Where's your data supporting this? I'd like to read it.
Dustin said:
Based on previous conversations, I've always been under the impression that you take pride in having a certain level of objectivity, (and recent analysis demonstrates your ability to be as objective as data allows) but wouldn't that change if you became an advertiser for the bubble?
First off, I don't believe that I have made a specific claim to objectivity in the past, certainly not in the "Welcome" post you linked to. That being said, you are correct in your determination that I feel that I am a fairly objective witness to the housing market in Seattle. Allow me to quote the definition of objective to use as a point of reference.
3a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices
3b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually
You will notice that nowhere in the definition does it say "without opinion." Rather, the requirements for objectivity can essentially be boiled down to "fact-based & emotion-free." So, to address your question about whether it is possible to remain objective while advertising "for the bubble," I would say no, I don't think that it would tarnish my objectivity. I am not suggesting making an emotional plea to people, but rather pointing out the facts in a simple and elegant way that will "just click" with people. I believe that falls well within the definition of objective.
I probably would not have even brought up this question but I feel compelled to comment any time synthetik takes my writings out of context as he did earlier in this thread! ;)
I don't at all follow the logic here. Someone (not me) made a comment that you took umbrage at, so you respond by questioning my objectivity?
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